Ep. 75: My Journey as an Adoptive and Foster Medical-Mama w/ Sarah Yates

Episode Transcript

Sarah Yates  0:00 

Her passing is definitely the hardest thing that's ever happened to either of us that we are both like, yeah, we would do this like 100 times over because Zariah deserved it like Zariah deserved everything we could get her and more.

 

Madeline Cheney  0:15 

Hey, you're listening to The Rare Life. I'm your host Madeline Cheney. Today I have Sarah Yates's special topic episode, all about her experience in fostering and adoption, with an emphasis on the more difficult emotions that she has faced with that. If you haven't caught her story episode, the one previous to this one, I highly recommend pausing this one and going back to listen to the first and then returning to this one. Because it really sets the foundation for this episode. So in this episode, Sarah talks about her grieving process in regards to Zariah ways that she's changed as a person because of her, and how she's dealt with the difficult feelings towards her children's birth parents, as well as the intensely difficult feelings towards the nurse that caused her daughter's death. Obviously, the particulars of Sarah's story are pretty unique to her. But I found it really interesting to hear how she's navigated through this thus far. And I think you will, too. And shout out to those of you, fellow adoptive foster medical parents listening also, I hope that you feel seen and included in this community. All right, let's jump in.

 

Madeline Cheney  1:48 

Hi, Sarah, welcome back to the show. So I would love to start out with a question. I I mean, like, I know the answer to this. But I would love to start out with the question of, if you had known the end from the beginning of how things would turn out with Zariah. Would you still have chosen to adopt her?

 

Sarah Yates  2:08 

Oh, my husband and I have talked about this? Yeah. Her passing is definitely like the hardest thing that's ever happened to either of us. But we are both like, yeah, we would do this like 100 times over because they're Zariah deserved it, like Zariah deserved everything we could give her and more. I guess there is like a little bit of guilt that like it felt like it was so meant to be at first. But then like sometimes in the back of my head, I'm like, I know, like there's no way of knowing. But I'm like if we hadn't adopted her if we hadn't taken her in, if she had spent a lot more time in the hospital and eventually gone to another family, like would she still be alive right now? That's like a little bit of guilt I've been dealing with.

 

Madeline Cheney  2:52 

Yeah, I'm sure that oh, my gosh, I hadn't thought of that. That probably is like such a painful little voice in your head.

 

Sarah Yates  3:00 

So I mean, the answer is like, mostly Yes. But then there's like that little thing in the back of my mind that like, because one of the doctors in the NICU had said, once like, Oh, she's gonna be here till her second birthday. During that time, I was like, Oh my gosh, like, I cannot let that happen. Like, this girl is not having her second birthday in the hospital. But then, like, when she passed, she was 20 months old. And so then I'm like, oh, like, would it have been better? If she had spent her second birthday in the hospital? Like she would still be here? Yeah, that's kind of hard.

 

Madeline Cheney  3:33 

Again, I think it goes back to like what we talked about in the first episode of like, what ifs or, you know, the whys of like, what could have been the situation to make it so that she was happy here? I'm not going to pretend to be like a psychology guru. But I'm sure that that is a very natural part of grief. And especially accidental death like this, like being tormented by like, oh, like what could have been and how can I possibly have had her still and there's make sense.

 

Sarah Yates  4:02 

But yeah, so then, like, people talk to me and stuff. And they were like, Oh my gosh, Zariah was just so much happier. Like once she came home, she was just smiling more. I don't know, she just got a lot more playful. Like she just like, progressed so much better with therapy. Once we got home. She was so smart. And like, figured out all of our little games. And so it's just so hard. There's like all the what ifs but then the time she was with us before that her life was a lot better than being in the hospital. I think she enjoyed being home with us so much more. But I mean, again, it's like well, then she would maybe still be here.

 

Madeline Cheney  4:40 

Yeah, just thinking about like the life that you gave her even though now knowing like, you know, oh man, it was like a lot shorter than we thought but like to know the amount of love and you know, playfulness and just security that she had, being in your family like I think that really is an amazing gift that you were able to get Have her and then the gift that you had because of that gift and being her mom, you know, and taking care of her and stuff. If you could go back in, like, tell yourself something when you were first meetings, Zariah and just kind of, you know, starting to explore the options of like fostering and adoption and stuff. What do you wish you could have told yourself?

 

Sarah Yates  5:21 

I think I would have told myself like, yeah, this little girl is gonna bring you more joy than you could ever imagine.

 

Madeline Cheney  5:32 

I love that. Yeah, it's just such a multifaceted thing, where it's like, the end of it was tragic. But there was so much love and so much joy that happened in between and like that it's all wrapped up into Right. Like, I think the joy that you had together and the love you had together absolutely plays on the grief and the pain of not having her like it's all intertwined. What is something that has surprised you about your grief process?

 

Sarah Yates  6:02 

I barely cried at her funeral. And I was like, Oh my gosh, like, I felt like a terrible mother. Lots of people around me are crying, and my eyes have watered a little bit, but like, I really haven't shed any tears. And then I like started reflecting. I'm like, why is this I'm like, well, first of all, I've been like sobbing uncontrollably for like the last eight days. I just went a little bit numb afterwards. Like, whenever we left the hospital without her like, after she had passed, I held her for like another 30 minutes afterwards, they took her away or parents came in. And then we had to leave. As I was walking out of the hospital, I just felt like so numb inside. I've been feeling so much emotion for the last eight days, it was like my body just like could not handle anything else. Which then as I've been learning more about grief and looking into this and stuff, this is actually like very natural. And like everything that happens to me happens to like, tons of people and like this is all very normal. But at the time, I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm a terrible mom. I'm not crying at my daughter's funeral.

 

Madeline Cheney  7:04 

Which probably made it so much worse, right? You feel that guilt of like, I'm a bad mom, because I'm not crying right now. You mentioned that you've been looking into it. And you're like, Oh, the things that I've been experiencing are actually very normal. And a lot of people are experiencing the same type of feelings that I have been, how has that affected your grief?

 

Sarah Yates  7:24 

That has helped a lot. We started taking like this grief share class, and one of the churches in town kind of stopped halfway through. But I think the first few lessons really, really helpful and stuff. I was like talking about how everybody grieves differently. And then it was it was talking specifically about how people like feel judged or don't feel like they're grieving the right way. And I felt like that just hit home so much. And apparently lots of people worry and wonder if they are grieving the right way. They're like, everybody's different. It's very normal for people to feel numb after an event like this for a while. And so it was just the act is at the funeral. I'm like, Oh my gosh, like, my grandpa's crying like my grandma's crying. My mom's crying my dad's crying. Like all these people are crying and I'm like, I'm not crying. And I'm like, I know, I loved her more than all of these people.

 

Madeline Cheney  8:13 

Yeah, yeah, I'm sure that was really confusing and very validating to be like, not only do other parents feel numb, but also other parents are feeling like, Oh, I'm not grieving, right? So like, both parts of that, like, you're not the only one, you know, feeling that way and experiencing that. And I mean, I think that solidarity and like, regardless of what people are going through, right, like this applies to child loss. It applies to you know, just having a child with disabilities if that's hard, and you know, just a variety of things. I think knowing that there's no right way or wrong way to process it and grief and then like also that you're not the only one dealing with it. The way you are like, can be really healing in and of itself.

 

Sarah Yates  8:57 

Yeah, like they're talking about also, like, it's very important to process and work through your grief, but it's different on everyone, like avoiding the grief is not the answer also. So they're like some people just try to avoid it altogether. And that's just gonna make things worse and extend your like grieving process.

 

Madeline Cheney  9:17 

Yeah, yeah. In what ways do you feel like you've changed because of Zariah being in your life being her mom? Like, what ways? Do you feel like you're a different person than you were before her?

 

Sarah Yates  9:31 

Oh, I mean, for starters, she just like made me a mom, which like just completely changes your life. Life is never the same after that point. I think I learned a lot about like, just being selfless. And I don't know she just taught me just like so much about how like, all life is just so valuable and so beautiful. Like she had so many disabilities. She was one of the smelliest one-year olds like I'd ever met. I don't think anybody's ever got as excited to see me as she would like, whenever I got home from work. She would like hear my voice as I was coming up the stairs, and she would start crying until I like came over to see her. And then she would just get so excited. And she would start throwing her body from side to side and have like the biggest smile on her face. And I don't know, she was just joy. So happy, like happiness written all over her face.

 

Madeline Cheney  10:24 

That is so sweet. I could totally picture that. Oh my gosh. So like, yeah, like just recognizing, you know, like you said, like becoming a mother. Like, I don't know, I don't think there's anything quite like that, like that transition of being like an adult, where you just like, your number one person to take care of is yourself and maybe a spouse or partner but like, to all of a sudden have this child that like, relies on you like that, and you have to continually like sacrifice your own wants and desires for them is. I agree, I think that's very life changing in it. It just changes everything, it changes everything about you go other ways do you feel like you've changed for better or worse, like, there could be aspects that you found in yourself after her passing that like maybe you don't like or that you do like, and just any of it?

 

Sarah Yates  11:10 

I feel like a lot of my innocence is gone since her passing. I was just a very, like optimistic person before like, just always very hopeful, like, a lot of joy and everything like that. And I feel like a lot of that is gone. I mean, like, I've played with my kids, like, I enjoy all my kids and everything. But it's just like the reality that like, you always know, bad things can happen. But when they actually happen to you, it's like, life is hard, like is going to be hard. Like, maybe not exactly like this, but like tough things like this are going to happen again. And as except a little bit like I'm never going to be the same person I was before she passed.

 

Madeline Cheney  12:00 

Totally, like, I think that kind of tragedy, like just changes you Right? Like, because the unimaginable has happened. And it's like, then anything can happen, you know, and will happen. Like there's almost like this acceptance of like, it's just gonna happen.

 

Sarah Yates  12:14 

Yeah. And I realized which other people I've been following other people on, like Instagram and stuff who have lost kids. And I saw a post about this. And I was like, Oh my gosh, like, I have been thinking the same thing. They're like, once you have one child die, you have like more of a fear that like additional children are going to die, which I have, like, definitely had a I have like that, like, oh my gosh, what happens if like, I adopt one of these other kids, and then another freak accident happens? Or what if we like have biological kids? And then like something happens to them? And it's like, it's a fear I never really had before, but now that it's happened, like, you're more afraid that it's going to happen again. Yeah. Which I know the chances of that happening again are like so so so slim.

 

Madeline Cheney  12:56 

But again, like it goes faster logic, right. Like, a lot of this is at soul level. And it's like, I mean, it's not logical, but still, that's your reality. Right? Like, that's your new reality. So like, where things like that can happen. And so that makes sense that, you know, it feels likely, it feels like to happen again. And I can see why that would like, I don't know, kind of take away that innocence in a way.

 

Madeline Cheney  13:23 

So like when when Zariah passed away? Did you feel like your identity shifting or like a loss of identity that you had before.

 

Sarah Yates  13:34 

Yeah, I definitely had like a mini identity crisis and stuff because even though I had only like legally been her mom for three months when she passed, like, I don't know, I was just so excited to be her mom, like I was so proud. I would tell everybody I was her mom and stuff. And then when I went it was just something about adopting her like I just started finding like so much of my identity and being her mom and like such a short period of time. And then when she passed even though we still had like two more foster kids, like they weren't mine and so even though it's like okay, like always going to be served by Islam, which is what people kept telling me and like I'm a foster mom to these kids but like they're not my like I don't have any kids here like with me right now that are like all mine. And so like that was hard.

 

Madeline Cheney  14:25 

Yeah, but have you been able to like find new identity yet? Or do you feel like that still yet to happen?

 

Sarah Yates  14:31 

I feel like it's been getting better. My husband was having a hard time with this too. And like, just reminding him like you will always be Zariah's dad. And then like, I think being a mom, like our foster kids has helped too. And like knowing I know like we'll have kids of our own soon. Not like we're trying to adopt any of these kids whose plan are reunification or anything because I know people who are very into foster care might be like, Oh my gosh, like, don't foster just to adopt, which we're not doing. But we are open to adopting them, like if they need adoptive homes eventually. But like, it's looking like, at least a couple of them will need adoptive homes, just the way their cases are going. Like, we're probably going to have biological children too. It's just hard because I mean, losing a child is hard.

 

Madeline Cheney  15:32 

So you're saying that like, because you still have that role as a mother and you will, in the future have that more permanent role? I guess, as a mother, like, you can still have that identity? And of course, like, that's never gonna replace Zariah or your place as her mother. So what is it like for you to like Foster? And then you know, was there I adopt medically complex children? Like, what has that been like for you?

 

Sarah Yates  15:59 

I think I don't Zariah's case is so different than our other two children's cases, like Zariah was pretty much abandoned. Mostly not completely. And then our other two medical babies like their parents have been involved in stuff and I've like had to like educate myself a lot more on like, just foster care in general, which I feel like maybe all that education was not like 100% necessary with Zariah's case, because it was so cut and dry. And so like just getting used to like, okay, taking them to visits to see their parents. Having all these court meetings, parental rights, termination being contested, and like, we came into foster care being asked to adopt Zariah. And like, knowing for these kids, like, that was not the goal initially, and we are working towards reunification as the foster parent, like you are supposed to support that and stuff was one of our kids who was like, so severely neglected. It's just so hard because I have all of that anger towards their mom. Because I'm like, Oh, my gosh, like, you messed up this kid, like, so badly. Like, for 14 months, like, this kid did not get any of the care they needed. And now they're like, so far behind and everything.

 

Madeline Cheney  17:20 

Yeah. So what has that process been like to feel kind of that frustration or that anger with like, these, these parents that are, you know, not there for their kids, or not giving them the care that they need? Like, what kind of emotions do you have towards them?

 

Sarah Yates  17:37 

I think it's just something I've been really trying to work on in myself. And I've been trying to educate myself by like, following lots of like, former foster youth and foster parents on social media and stuff. And just remembering like, most of these parents, were not raising the best home themselves, like the number one risk factor for having your kids end up in foster care is being in foster care yourself when you were a kid. And so it's just like, trying to picture them as kids like, they just were not taught how to parent like, they didn't have good examples, like, one of these moms. She just honestly has, like, no idea. I think there's mental health issues too. But like just no idea what to do, like, even in the slightest. And like, a lot of them are battling addiction and stuff, which is like so hard. And so it's just, I've been trying to like, give them grace and stuff.

 

Sarah Yates  18:29 

And I think having our older girls too, has helped a lot because they just love their moms. So much like their moms have wronged them, like they've done so many things wrong, but that's still their mom, and they love their mom. And one thing that's helped a lot is like there's lots of times that they're like, oh, they call me mom, too. And so they'll be like, hey, like, "Mom, can we pray about her parents night and stuff." And so like sitting down with these kids and like praying for their moms praying that they'll get better praying that that they can work through all of their problems and stuff like that just like really like womanizes them and stuff. And like, just like hearing the six and seven year old, like praying for God to help their mom, it just like, melts me and like really, really helps me to have grace for them. Yeah, I realized I had wrong views about foster care, too. But like lots of people view, foster care, like, oh, yeah, obviously it would be the best thing for like these kids to be taken away and out of these bad situations and stuff. And then off times, you would hear stories about foster parents like losing their foster kids, and then going back to their moms and it was like viewed as a tragedy and stuff like that. But then like as you like, get educated and learn these things. The best possible outcome for these kids is that their parents get better and that they go back with their parents because they're going to have the least trauma from that life. It doesn't matter. Like if you can provide more for then, if they can go to nicer schools, like if you can pay for their college, if they can do all these extracurricular activities, they're going to have the least trauma. And they are going to have the better like long term outcome, if they go back to their parents and their parents are really changed. And so like, wow, that's been like, hard to processor because I, I feel like I was just grown up and like, taught to, like, think a certain way. And so I'm, like, kind of happening change how I think, like the past few months, because I didn't even really have to face any of that with Zariah.

 

Madeline Cheney  20:33 

Yeah, yeah, that makes so much sense. And like imagining them, praying for their mom like, that is so tender. Yeah, see why that's helped you like, like, okay, like, if they love them like that, then you can see them in a different light. And I think that's also a great like technique to where you were, like, picturing them, as you know, kind of as foster children themselves as the parents as foster children and be like, oh, like, they probably had a rough upbringing, too. And that's what led to this, like, I can totally see how that would, you know, speak to your part of your heart that loves these foster children and takes care of them. And I think that's really cool. I feel like if I really don't like someone, or I'm just like, really upset with them, whatever, if you just picture them as like kids, and especially as kids that are like having a kind of a rough time and raised in a rough way. Like, I think that really can give us a lot of compassion for each other. And a lot of like, just benefit of the doubt, I guess, you know, of recognizing like that a lot of times suffering causes us to do things that we normally wouldn't. And yeah, I think that's really cool. So, speaking of like, complex and difficult feelings towards people, what has it been like for you in regards to like, your feelings towards the nurse that was in charge of Zariah when her trach accident happened?

 

Sarah Yates  22:09 

My emotions have been like all over the place from that. There's been like, a lot of anger. I think anger is probably the biggest emotion. Yeah, like, we got the name of one recording, it was very obvious that this was an accident, like she did not do this on purpose. But like, this is someone I trusted my child with. And they're like a trained medical professional granted, based off the way things went down. I don't think she got as much training as she should have. I had gone over all the stuff with her at the beginning. But I'm like, Well, you've taken like, basic CPR, for sure. And so like, I feel like that alone should have I mean, like they teach you the ABCs. It's like airway, breathing and circulation. Like the first thing you check is airway. I'm like, this is like one of the first things they teach you in any health care class, like, yeah, or any CPR class, you take, like you check the airway first, then you check on breathing, and then you worry about circulation. So it was just something like so basic from somebody who's supposedly trained, and at least I know, they went to school and that they've taken at least basic CPR. And so it's just I'm like, You didn't even Yeah, it's just and then I've been like, trying to work through like, eventually I want to get to the place where I'm able to forgive her. Now, I know a lot of people have been saying like, Oh my gosh, like I could never forgive like somebody who did this to my kid. But like, I forget where I heard this once, but it was like bitterness is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. So I'm just like, letting this hate inside me, like grow and grow and grow. Like that's not gonna hurt her. That's just gonna, like continue to hurt me. And like, bring me down and hurt my life. We're like very strong believers and stuff too. And I know like, God calls us to forgive everything. And before I was like, oh, yeah, like obviously like, yeah, we're supposed to forgive everything that I never thought like God would ask me to forgive something like this big. Yeah, so it's gonna be a long process but I'm like, trying to let go of that hate and bitterness in my heart towards her which is hard.

 

Madeline Cheney  24:37 

Gosh, yeah, I'm sure like I'm feeling this I'm sure everyone listening right now is feeling this like holy cow like what a task right like to eventually get to that point and I like how you said that. Not necessarily right now but like at some point you would like to get to that point where you forgive her because I'm guessing you know, that will take a lot of time and a lot of work, especially the way it happened, like you said, like a lot of it was like, in competency where there should have been competency and like with your background where you could recognize those gaps and just knowing how easily it could have been prevented, and but I think you're also right when you say like, that it will improve your life if you aren't feeling that anger and bitterness all the time towards her. And I think that's probably the bottom line, right is like, to improve your life as much as possible by eventually getting to that point, which would be so amazing.

 

Sarah Yates  25:34 

Yeah, but then at the same time, I like never really want to see her again, either. I don't even know if I would ever get to that point where I would be like, okay with that, which I've been talking to people, which I think that's okay, and I can get to a point where I can forgive her and like, let this go to some extent, not not like, let her death go. But like, let this like bitterness and anger go. But like, still, like, I don't have to face like, it's just I like, I know, it was an accident. But I know, like, if I saw her, like all of these emotions would just like, like, I don't even know how I would handle it.

 

Madeline Cheney  26:15 

Yeah, I do think that like, it all needs to kind of come back to like your emotional health, your grief process, and like, what is best for you. And so I think recognizing, like, Hey, I think it would be really great for me to be able to, like not be harboring this like hatred, or anger, or bitterness. But like also, I don't know, that I could handle like seeing her and staying in that place. And so I think that's very wise. And like, I don't know, I think it's a really good call that those are like the boundaries that you have for yourself. And like you say, like, this is different. This isn't like little things like Oh, forgive someone for cutting you off in traffic. Like this is a really big deal. That totally makes sense.

 

Sarah Yates  26:57 

Yeah, I don't know. Like when you learn in church and stuff, like oh, yeah, your sister like, forgive everything. Like, because like God has forgiven you from so much. But yeah, I mean, everything I like thought of before, like situations where I would have to forgive people, like none of them were this big. And so it's just yeah, it's a lot.

 

Madeline Cheney  27:17 

Yeah, I mean, like, to be honest, it feels like the one like, "Man's Search for Meaning." It is the name of the book where the guy that was like in the concentration camp, like, shook hands with one of the guards and says, like, I forgive you. Like, do you know what I'm talking about?

 

Sarah Yates  27:34 

I think I do. Yeah.

 

Madeline Cheney  27:36 

It feels like that level of epicness. Like, oh, my gosh, you know, what a task. Yeah. Do you? So okay, here's a question for you to like, if you picture the version of yourself, right now, like when you are still having a lot of those feelings of like, you know, anger and like, hatred and like bitterness towards her. And then if you picture like, I don't know, like down the road, maybe 10 years, 20 years, and you picture yourself, maybe at a place where like me like, yeah, I let the anger go. And I'm not bitter anymore. What does that feel like to picture that like that future day versus right now?

 

Sarah Yates  28:16 

I think it would feel like very freeing like a weights been lifted off my shoulders.

 

Madeline Cheney  28:22 

Yeah. So you must feel that weight right now. The weight of that? Yeah, hard feelings towards her.

 

Sarah Yates  28:29 

I feel like it's even gotten a little bit better than after it initially happened. But yeah, there's definitely some of that weight there. I feel like I avoid thinking about this nurse a lot, too.

 

Madeline Cheney  28:42 

So sorry for bringing it up.

 

Sarah Yates  28:46 

I feel like I don't know. I feel like I sometimes, like block that out a little bit. But I mean, it's good for me to like talk about this and process through things and like work through this grief and everything that happens.

 

Madeline Cheney  29:01 

Yeah, yeah. So kind of in conclusion, what advice would you leave with listeners that may be experiencing similar grief to yours or maybe a little bit different, but you know, a grief and pain that may be similar? What kind of advice would you have for us?

 

Sarah Yates  29:20 

I think my advice would be to just like grieve at your own pace. Like don't, don't let people try to rush you through it. Don't let people give you a hard time if it's taking you longer to grieve than people would expect you to. And just to make sure you're not avoiding that grief to like, it's important to talk about the grief you're feeling it's if you just step it down, like you're gonna still be dealing with the same issues like five years from now. And talk to people about it, process through it, work through it. It's okay to cry. Even if you need to, like cut out time in your day to cry about it. work through that. If a child's past, like don't avoid their gravesite, it's good to like confront those feelings, like, go through your phone, like, look through pictures of your kid, like look through pictures and videos. And then at first, it'll be really hard and bring back a lot of sadness and grief. But eventually, which I feel like I'm just starting to get there, we'll be able to look back at those pictures and be able to smile and remember those memories for what they were. And they won't bring you sadness anymore. But you'll remember the joy that you had in those moments. And like, one of the grief classes we took, it was like, you can't like skip the steps of grief. Like you have to work through greif. You can't go around grief, like you can't avoid it. Like eventually, it's gonna eat you alive if you don't process through what's happened.

 

Madeline Cheney  30:50 

Yeah, yeah, I think that's really, really good advice. And I, you know, I think it's easier said than done, at least, that's been my experience group, like, you know, to be willing to face it, head on, whenever you feel up to it. But like, I do think it'll evolve into something that is tolerable, and, you know, change us along the way, in ways that will probably be, you know, kind of beautiful transformation, even if it's really painful, and it takes 20, 30. 50 years down the road. Like, I do think that grief can really can change us because it's always centered in love. And that's the common factor of grief.

 

Sarah Yates  31:31 

Yeah, and one thing that has been helpful that people have said, like, whenever you lose a loved one, like, I feel like some people are afraid that like if they tried to move forward with their life, that they're like, kind of forgetting and leaving the other person behind. But I loved how one person put it like there's a difference between moving on and moving forward. Like, you'll never move on from what happened. But like, you work through this grief, and you find a way to like, move forward. Because you have to and that's what your loved one would have wanted. And you're like taking their memory along with you.

 

Madeline Cheney  32:07 

Oh, that's really beautiful. I love picturing that. Well, thank you so much, Sarah for sharing. Ways that you have evolved and changed and different experiences that you've had with your grief with Zariah and adoption and fostering and coming up against someone who's wronged you and I really appreciate your openness.

 

Sarah Yates  32:30 

 Thank you.

 

Madeline Cheney  32:32 

If this episode brought up some intense feelings about grief, whether that is about child loss or a difficult diagnosis, I encourage you to look into our sponsor "Better Help". They are an online therapy service that offers therapy in the convenience of your own home, and at a more affordable price than typical therapy. They even offer financial aid to those who qualify. So check out the link in the show notes to learn more about that if that speaks to you. Join me next week for a conversation with Moira Cleary rare mom to two teenage daughters and a mindfulness practitioner. As we chat about ways we can stay true to ourselves and our inner values, while also meeting the intense needs of our family. I hope you join us. See you then!